THE GREAT WHITE DOPE

Welcome to the Summer of Punk: The Sequel. Why the sequel you ask? Simply put Ring of Honor brought us the original Summer of Punk years ago. It was pretty great. This current Summer of Punk? Well, you may have to judge for yourself. But based on the reaction of the World Wrestling Insanity Message Boards I'd say this is a rousing success as well. The best way to compare it to anything would be Evil Dead. ROH's Summer of Punk was Evil Dead. WWE's Summer of Punk is Evil Dead II. They're both in essence almost the exact same thing, one just has a slightly bigger budget and more notoriety than the other. Now I need to see where everyone is on this ride. Wait, some people believe this is legit? Some people still aren't sure? This is going to be one of those things people believe is real for years isn't it? Oh well, just shows how good Punk is at his job.

Markus Ramius

CM Punk was delusional if he thought for one second that he would walk out as WWE Champ, Bret Hart was a billion times more popular and Vince put the kybosh on that thought of his. CM Punk can only dream to reach the status of someone like Bret.

I'm surprised Vince didn't pull the plug faster than he did on Monday.

                The Green Teabagger

                Two COMPLETELY different situations here M.R.

                                Markus Ramius

                                well yes and no...

                        Bret was well liked and respected by everyone in the back including Vince and Vince fucked him over on live PPV to protect his business.

                        CM Punk is a douche at best, on top of being someone that actually believes his own internet press. The guy is flat out delusional if he thinks for one second that Vince would allow him to leave the company as WWE Champ.

                        And now that all of his televised apearences have been cancelled it's pretty clear he's just going to be killing time until his contract expires.

                        If TNA want the mental case back they're welcome to have him, he'll fit right in with the likes of Flair, Hogan, Bischoff, The Hardy's, Kurt, Jarrett and Jesse Neal

                                    xArsenicKissx

                                    A worked shoot comment about a worked shoot?

Tenchi

Did Vince Russo contribute to this page? My head is hurting over the prospect of multiply-layered worked shoots, lol.

TheGreatWhiteDope

Wait...what? We ALL understand that if Vince had a gigantic problem with the promo, which is obvious he didn't, it wouldn't be in highlight packages and they'd sweep the entire thing under the rug.

The guy wouldn't even get the match if this was a big deal. Seriously?

Slim James

Wait, you're telling me wrestling's not real?

            James Bullock

            NOOOOOOO!

            http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070114035915/uncyclopedia/images/archive/b/b5/20070117185243!Exploding-head.gif

                        TheGreatWhiteDope

                        ....it's still real to me.....damnit

Markus Ramius

you guys can talk all you want but right on the front page of wwe.com you can read for yourself that Punk will continue his non-televised events, which means that any hope of seeing him on TV either RAW or PPV is a fantasy... just like the world Punk lives in. it's no secret that I've always hated the guy personally and professionally, he's a douche.

                XArsenicKissx

                Because the WWE has never used the website to put out any false information...

                                Markus Ramius

                                so if he shows up on RAW monday THEN you can say i told you so, but until then i'll be happy if i never see him on WWE TV again.

                                    Tenchi

                                    Then prepare to be sorely disappointed.

The Chosen 1

1st of all... Wow

2nd of all... It seems a boat load of big names in the industry would strongly disagree with you via they're Twitter

3rd of all considering this is all a work that you fed right into... I think that means you're going to have to admit that CM Punk is PHENOMENAL at his job considering he's single handedly making you feel the way he wants you to feel.

Mike Johns

I can't leave this board alone for five minutes without something crazy happening, can I?

JohnnyCraze

I see Punk winning the title....leaving with the title(all in a work)....coming back at Summerslam and losing the title back to Cena.

                Sprout1883

                but Cena will be 'fired'

            Do we then have to put up with him on TV every week (in his wrestling gear) despite him being 'fired' much like the last time til VKM re-instates him?

TheGreatWhiteDope

I don't see Punk/Cena @ ROH on Aug 13th all that unfeasible actually. Unlikely? Yes. Completely out of the question...I don't think so.

Squirrelz!!

Best story since the debut of Nexus (even if they blew it). Too bad that Punks "shoot" has people thinking it was him literally shooting on the company. It's like thinking X-Men are real people because it looks ever so realistic. Take a step back people, take a deep breath and get back to reality. It's a TV show.

XArsenicKissx

Just finished listened to Colts podcast and he made an interesting comparison with Stone Cold and The Attitude era, in that Punk was speaking about his boss the way everyone wishes they could, but can't. Maybe part of the reason for the SCSA shirt?

                Aaron Wood

                Reason for the Stone Cold shirt is that they would like to do a program of some sort, even if just a continued verbal battle, with Punk & Stone Cold, although it's really down to Stone Cold and his scheduling right now. Kinda like what Cena has going on with The Rock, although they're destined for a match. Punk & Austin are FAR less so.

The Chosen 1

I'm pretty sure the SCSA shirt is a reference to Austins shoots in ECW and his own feelings of being in the same spot as Austin was in WCW.

Theman6201

Personally, I think Punk will win the title from John Cena, only for the RAW MITB winner (probably Del Rio) to come in and cash in the MITB title shot and win the title back from Punk that night. Since Vince said "If Punk takes the title with him, you're fired," Cena will keep his job because Punk did not take the title with him. It then sets up Del Rio (Or whoever wins MITB) as Vince's new favorite, since he saved the title and the company and builds in a feud for Cena to chase the title going into SummerSlam. Just my opinion though.

                Squirrelz!!

                Agreed but Del Rio loses against Punk, possibly via interference from *drumroll*...

xArsenicKissx

So Punk winning seems a dead cert at the moment, but how is he going to do it? Personally I hope he goes over clean as I think it will help set up his return much better, and will leave a much longer lasting stronger image in peoples heads. Saying that though, I'm sure it will be a screwy Nexus finish.

Anthony.Analog

How much better would the Cena/VKM interaction have been on Monday if Cena would've taken off the shirt/armbands/hat and thrown those at Vince as being "worthless" after he dumped the title in his arms???

PeterDawson

Dunno really, as while yes its merch, it is also what helps make them stands out as individuals. Sure they're whoring themselves, but they take pride in it and the WWE is just a means to an end for how to profit from it. While definitely adding some more gravitas dunno if it would quite fit with what they were going for.

So between the wackiness of Punk maybe shooting, maybe not (he wasn't) and getting people in a uproar; where do we go from here? Well, luckily the WWE was on tour around the globe and some fans pulled out their phones/flips giving us a ringside seat to the action. Calling someone a ‘homo' you say? No, Punk putting everyone over including Zack Ryder.

Aaron Wood

I'm slightly amazed that Alex Riley was the one foiled when Zack Ryder got to hit the Rough Ryder.

Drewcifer

Did I just see Punk spit the green mist at Riley? Boy, the RADL (Reptilian Anti-Defamation League)is going to set their hair on fire for this.

PeterDawson

Don't forget the Saliva League. They want you to stop sharing oral fluids and their theme song is Don't Question My Heart.

The Chosen 1

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Awesome.

Poor Alex Riley... why him? haha I wonder if that's some kind of GREEN joke on him lol.

And lol @ Beth Phoenix being in there... aren't they dating? haha

                The Green Teabagger

                That's why she ONLY Glam Slammed him. Had she been pissed off, she would've beaten Punk senseless using Santino Marella as a club.

ZAH

This is awesome.

And any heel would LOVE doing this because it means they're so hated that everybody wants to see ALL of the babyfaces kick their ass.

Great stuff...and AWESOME to see Alex Riley get treated like the rookie he still is. Heh...that's old-school wrestling, right there.

So with all of the CM Punk stuff out there for the week I decided to see what our World Wrestling Insanity forums thought about the 00's. Because when people talk about classic storylines, gimmicks, and their fondest wrestling memories it seems the late 90's get a lot of the attention. I fully believe that 2000-2010 had itself some pretty good gems inside of it. Thus the question was brought up:

TheGreatWhiteDope

So I'm currently watching my bluray copy of WM25, since I've never seen it with commentary on and it's been a few years. Currently I have gotten to Snuka/Piper/Steamboat vs Jericho.

This brought to me an interesting question. What is your favorite storyline from the 00's? Maybe it didn't play out perfect or whatever, but what is it?

Hell and as a secondary, what is the story you liked, saw potential in, but then was screwed up? WWE/TNA/ROH, it doesn't matter.

Few personal favorites:
Jericho vs Legends
Jericho vs Michaels
Orton vs McMahons (i just saw the end as kind of anti-climactic)
Punk vs Hardy

James Guttman

One of the last great storylines before the WCW Buyout burned the business down was Triple H vs. Kurt Angle - with Kurt trying to do Stephanie the whole time. They played it great and it was the first real breakout role for Angle.

The Chosen 1

It's hard for me to count anything that happened between 2000-Mid 2001 when WCW folded just because it feels so much like an entirely different era... and everything moved so fast during those years it's hard for me to remember stuff...but...

Hardys vs E&C vs Dudleys (I LOVED The TLC feud...)

HHH vs Kurt (Great story... but like most stories from back then, had pretty much no real ending... which made sense since they were both solidly heels and were never turned, even if they made HHH the more likeable one)

Eddie vs Rey (It got stupid, but the matches were just so great)

Hogan vs Vince (Which included Hogan vs Rock II and the new Heel Rock. Until the whole Mr. America thing, I really did enjoy the feud)

Big Show vs Floyd Mayweather (Say what you will, but everything they did together was explosive, exciting, and generated a LOT of buzz)

HBK vs Chris Jericho (The one with the wife punching... this was a great feud and might just be my favorite feud since the fall of WCW. Mainly because it's the only feud in years to bled so fluidly out of TWO other storylines that year... because really you have to count HBK vs Flair and then HBK vs Batista in this feud because it was HBK's killing Flair that led Batista to a great SHADES OF GREY feud with HBK that ended up leading to an even greater Chris Jericho feud, and was responsible for the transformation of Jericho from the Bad MAMA JAMA! to the Best in The World at What He Does...great, intense, in depth and complex storyline and amazing matches on top of it.)

JohnnyCraze

Austin vs Rock was great before they turned Austin heel at WM 2001.

Rock vs Hogan WM 2002 was Hogan's last great feud and match.

The nWo coming back was interesting before WWE killed it by just randomly putting people in it.

Eddie Guerrero vs Kurt Angle 2004 was great.

Benoit/HHH/HBK WM 2004 was awesome and what a great WM moment(yes, I know what happened with Benoit but you can't take away that moment).

Everything Lita did!!

            TheGreatWhiteDope

            I would have to actually agree with Chosen 1 and say Hogan/McMahon was extremely intriguing and good, until Mr. America (although I find the character hilarious), just because it did take us for a long trip that ended in a Mania match.

Rock/Hogan was awesome, but Hogan had a great feud with McMahon and the match wasn't terrible for what it was. It was an interesting fight.

                        T-Dog

                        The first TLC match had a great setup with E&C going on strike/protesting and Foley making the match. The Wrestlemania TLC was thrown together and wasn't that good a storyline but the match was great.

Agreed on HHH/Kurt.

Eddie/Rey was stupid and the matches weren't that great. Some nights Eddie was badly off due to his heart not pumping normally. Could have been so much better if htye kept it simple.

Hogan/Vince was decent until the Mr America twist which made it really good. The whole build didn't click and the WM19 buyrate reflected it.

Big Show/Mayweather had two great build-up segments in the first one where Show got his nose broken and the one where Show press-slammed Mayweather to the floor. The others where Mayweather was via satellite were death, but it didn't hurt the buyrate due to the strength of the two major segments which each got a lot of mainstream attention.

HBK/Jericho co-starring Batista is hands down the winner as it had a logical beginning, middle and end. Everything made sense and I can't remember a match or segment in the whole 6-7 months that was disappointing.

Eddie/JBL was great but short. It did big business in Border States and they sold out Staples Center. It's a shame Eddie hated being a face because he was majorly over.

Eaglesfn345

Well since Smackdown was the show that got me back into watching wrestling back around 2000 after a long hiatus, I've got to say that my personal favorite was the rivalry between Eddie Guerrero and JBL. Eddie win over Brock Lesner catapulted him to super-stardom. He was one of the best baby-face champions in recent history, cunning, crafty, and oh-so-amazing in the ring that you couldn't help but cheer 'Edd-ie! Edd-ie!'

But on the flip side, you had a surly brute with the cowboy hat and toothy grin, JBL was everything that Eddie was not. The contrast in styles, high-flying + technical excellence vs. barroom brawler worked so well. But once Bradshaw won the WWE championship, it seemed to mark a high water mark for Eddie. The insufferable reign of JBL would last 9 months...until a new challenger stepped up, who up until then was Smackdown's most intriguing United States Champion...

PeterDawson

Lesnar Vs Angle and Edge Vs Cena (2006 which includes the first Money in the Bank) come to mind, though the second big Rock Vs Stone Cold feud is a natural as well.

TheGreatWhiteDope

You know I'm going to put this here, because it goes with a story throughout the '00s.

Edge.

The whole Ultimate Opportunist character/story was really something. Sure some people said it got tired after awhile, but I don't think it ever was. He was that villian that when he found a way around something people were just like "Fuck...that asshole did it again."

Also some of the best random moments came out of it. The very first cashing in of the MitB, the MitB cash-in on Smackdown and then Edge being eliminated from the Elimination Chamber in less than 2 minutes, etc etc.

That character arc was actually just really great.

Squirrelz!!

When The Rock became "Hollywood Rock" and was one of the funniest heels of all time (His work with the Hurricane was hilarious as well as the random acoustic songs about towns sucking)

The thought about a potential Invasion angle when WCW was purchased then they actually did it and it sucked. The time before they started it however was awesome (...yeah, I know it's not a real angle but thinking about Rock/Sting feuds or Austin/Goldberg was awesome. Like Fantasy Football, just more fun)

Those old Miz/Morrison quickie shows they had on WWE.com where Morrison said funny shit like "There are no fat chicks in the palace of wisdom"

Edge becoming the Rated-R Superstar and his whole thing with Lita was awesome

Muhammad Hassans whole deal beginning to end was great

ECW One Night Stand version one and two were awesome... Then they raped it to death (Although it did give us Punk, Elijah Burke, Miz and the immortal Marcus Cor Von)

The memorable Wrestlemania moment between Beno...errrm... Crash Holly and Eddie Guerrero

The "shoots" by both Paul Heyman (During the invasion) and Joey Styles (Before the WWECW began)

... That's about it for now.

James Bullock

Time for me to be that guy and say, "Screw WWE!" Well, no. I actually enjoyed most of the stuff already posted, especially Jericho vs. HBK, Austin vs. Rock for WM 17, and the HHH, Angle, Steph triangle. One of the late '00 storylines I loved in WWE was the Jericho-Mysterio series. Great story told through a series of excellent matches.

As much as TNA gets abused by us (I help), they have produced some memorable storylines. The whole build to Jarrett-Raven in 2003 was probably the best story they'd done up to that point, but the ending with Jarrett winning ruined it in a lot of fans eyes - even though it was built for JJ to win.
Another great storyline TNA produced was Samoa Joe's push toward the World title in 2006. The road toward Bound Found Glory seemed made for Joe's big moment in TNA, but decided to go with Sting having his moment, and beginning the Sting BFG streak.

I won't get started on ROH for the simple reason I could go on and on. Just to name a few: Punk vs. Raven; Alex Shelley vs. Gen Next; Jimmy Jacobs vs. BJ Whitmer; Danielson vs. Homicide (both rivalries); Briscoes vs. Steenerico; Danielson vs. Morishima; Generico vs. Steen.

Slim James

The very first month of the 00's, Cactus Jack v Triple H. Even if the buildup started in late 99 (and kind of tied in with how Triple H won his first title back in August of 99, setting Mick Foley on a path of hokey Mankindery), the actual 'reveal' of Cactus Jack and the build up videos for that match are something I still remember vividly.

Aaron Wood

You know, I'm going to be totally honest here. Because I'm gonna say The Invasion.

Because while i had The INternet at Uni, it fucking sucked donkey dick in my Halls Of Residence (2001, remember) and so while I had a level of Net access, I wasn't the involved person I am today.

So really, even if people were saying the things they say now and pretend they aren't saying in hindsight back then, I wasn't really seeing it. So I was just kinda enjoying it for what it was, unfiltered, at the time. I was SOOOOO excited for the Invasion PPV, which as I recall aired on Free TV (Channel 4) at the time. If not, I was given a video very soon after the show because I remember watching it in full at the time and just pretty much marvelling at the notion of seeing the WCW on WWE TV.

Of course, I'm full genned up on it's insanity and ass-backwardness now, but at the time, it was THE thing for me.

TheGreatWhiteDope

Jacobs/Lacey (Note: It's an ROH storyline kids. Go check it out. It is completely beautiful.) deserves a spot on this list too. That was a hell of a story.

                James Bullock

                Like you said for Edge, the Jimmy Jacobs character has been one of the greatest things in wrestling for the past seven years.

                        TheGreatWhiteDope

                        I kinda skipped over it at first just because we've already devoted pages on this board about him and an entire audio about him to boot.

                                                Mike Johns

                                                This, about 7 times over.

I have to go with Trish/Mickie, at least up to WrestleMania. Never got the whole deal where Mickie started wanting to be Trish because it didn't make much sense. The story was about Mickie wanting to be with Trish, and, upon Trish rejecting her, I figured Mick would want to burn all that Trish ever was, ruin her Legacy, and be out to destroy all Trish ever was... not become her.

I also thought it was weird they didn't play into Mickie's psychosis more. WHY is she so screwy? My theory was, well, she's actually in denial over her homosexuality, and doesn't realize her crush on Trish means she's actually attracted to women in general. Add to that some creepy hero worship, and you basically have the one woman in all the world Mickie can actually feel comfortable expressing her true sexuality with. Now, when this person blows you off because, well, she ain't down with the lesbian thing, and you snap... why'd you snap? And why did Mickie never try to make Trish jealous with, say, another woman? If she's actually gay, and open about it, why never hook her up with another girl, ever? And, why never have Mick WANT to hook up with another girl? OR - why did LayCool never bring up the gay stuff? Because her character is in denial. She thinks she's straight. If she didn't, losing Trish would have never been the end-all for her it was, and NO WAY would they have hugged it out on Trish's way out.

Or... they just dropped the whole gimmick and pretended it never happened. Sort of like TNA.

The initial AJ/Daniels feud in TNA. From 2005, for the X-Belt, before Joe got involved and they turned Daniels almost on a dime despite the fact the fans wanted to boo Chris and cheer Joe. Loved that.

The Raven/Jarrett feud from 2003.

Serena Deeb's series against Sara Del Rey and run for the SHIMMER title against MsChif

Strangely enough.... Dr. Stevie and Daffney's issue with Taylor Wilde. I think this was mostly because of the chemistry everyone involved had, and the pure awesome acting job Daff did in her transition from "Governor" back to Daffney. They had to ruin it by linking it all to Abyss, but if you cut the Abyss stuff, and forget that the Monster's Ball caused at least half the injuries she's suing TNA for... made for a heck of a women's feud.

Stevie Richards' relationship with Victoria. I'd have to almost give props to his schtick with Jazz (similar premise, but had to be cut short because Jazz got hurt), but he and Tara worked so much better together. In fact, he tends to work incredibly well with women, especially as a proxy.

Nigel/Danielson - fantastic matches, with guys playing both sides of the fence, for virtually every reason you could imagine, and still technically never really "settled".

Eddie's US Title run. Somehow, you can put a tag partner through a windshield for no good reason, and still get cheered. I wish he had a better world title run. You know, won the belt back from the nowhere-near-as-awesome-as-he-would-later-become-once-he-learned-how-to-promo-as-JBL JBL, had the Booker T feud fans actually wanted to see instead, and not led SmackDown into a year where everyone on the brand had to be sacrificed to JBL in an attempt to get him to draw... only to see a year later that all you had to do was give the man some TIME and a Mic?

See, you guys rip on the H run. Me? JBL's 2004 killed it for me. With H, you at least had the argument that something was working. JBL as the cheap Bush knockoff who ended Eddie's title run out of nowhere after only being heel maybe a month and nowhere near accepted as anything more than a midcard cowboy at that point? Nope. Now, given, once he beat Benoit at Mania for the US Belt, he was ready for the Main Event status and the love he gets now, but that first one almost killed SmackDown.

Anything else I liked from a major company? Wow... mentioned Serena, right?

Allison Danger vs. Portia Perez - Portia tried to attack a pregnant Danger. Never got within a mile of her to be able to try, thanks to Bryce Remsberg jumping the gun and not letting Portia even come off the ropes before tackling her, but the intent was there, and it still pissed people off. Seriously, do not get it. No one was actually going to let Portia touch a pregnant woman, let alone hurt her. Hell, Bryce tackled her almost as soon as she finished talking. If Portia was actually able to get within a reach of Danger, yeah, then you can say they were getting risky, but she never came close. ever. But hey, trying to kill one's kid in the womb sure does make for some good blood feud fuel, don't it?

Anthony.Analog

Styles/Daniels/Joe I (which included Daniels breakout role as longest reigning X Division champ... and Joe's MONSTER push).

Punk's heel turn and the subsequent Meth Hardy feud.

Lesnar's introduction (and basically anything he did until Goldberg... the guy was such a natural. I'd never seen a wrestler look so REAL and dominating in the ring).

MCMG vs Beer Money.

Austin Starr vs Alex Shelly (and really, Paparazzi Productions altogether, including Kevin Nash).

HBK vs Taker I & II.

Cena vs JBL (even though their WM match sucked, their I Quit match the following PPV was arguably either man's best match ever).

It would be a big thing to note before we move on that that topic was about 1-2 posts away from being the “Jimmy Jacobs is an uncrowned God” thread. Which with his newfound role in Ring of Honor (Check it out kids: www.rohwrestling.com ) he could again rise to the top with another breakout amazing storyline to be remembered in the next decade. Jimmy Jacobs is the unsung greatest character in wrestling from the 00s. Anyone who saw it knows, and he'll probably never get the full recognition for it he deserves.

This Week in WWI Forum History

I'm just going to be honest this week guys; there isn't a lot. When summer comes people go do things and sometimes the wrestling world just slows down. Alas I have dug through the trenches and found one or two interesting period pieces.

TNA Talent Wants Out & Samoa Joe declines to stay longer – July 3^rd 2007

T-Dog

I saw on another forum that at the ROH show in Chicago recently, several people talked to Austin Aries about TNA and Aries said that all the "ROH guys" there want out. He said Sabin, Shelley and Joe have long term contracts so they are there for a while but other guys aren't renewing their contracts when they come up for renewal. He cited Homicide as the next ROH guy who's contract ends sometime soon. Cide did tell ROH fans in NYC that he would be back so it's not that far fetched, plus with the tons of stories about the "mid-level talent" being miserable there, I wouldn't be shocked with ROH paying around the same rate as a TNA mid-carder (not to mention free range of Indy/Japan/Europe bookings which definately helps) and with ROH offering medical insurance with their contracts, it's very possible. Aries also said that per appearance, he was making less working strictly TNA than strictly ROH.

Again, I know what someone (or in this case, a few people) write on a message board can't be taken all that seriously, I'm just saying with the facts already known, it's very possible that TNA's talent roster could be depleted within the next year or so.

            BlackFrancisFan

            Yeah I heard a lot of people are upset in TNA. Ron Killings, Konnan, VKM, Aries, Senshi, The Naturals, Team 3D; all of them are upset and have either left or wants to leave. These people that want to go back to ROH or wherever are never used on TV and I hear them say in interviews that one of the most frustrating thing with them is their lack of ring or TV time. That's another reason why this 2 hour show is vital towards TNA's future. They can't only use half the roster for much longer because it hurts the shows growth potential quality wise and it also hurts the talents morale.

The Naturals were released weren't they? I seem to recall some "free at last" references.

                        Aaron Wood

                        I think it was a case where they were released form their contracts, but agreed to pop up now and again to do jobber duties.

                                                Clifffside

                                                Yeah, they pop up at house shows and TNA polls on the internet.

Another thing about these unhappy talents is that all of them except for Team 3D are barely noticeable because they aren't ever on TV much. So if they all left, fans wouldn't really miss them or even notice that they are gone.

James Guttman

TNA's biggest problem is that they emulate many of WWE's problems both in the office and on the screen. They need to embrace their position as the underdog that serves to welcome discarded wrestlers from the big company rather than making themselves another place that treats talent poorly. I've heard too many stories lately about talent being unhappy and having their wishes ignored with the understanding that "they'll get over it."

Fritz Stephey

If there is unhappy talent (And god don't we know there is), if these TV deal issue is real and true, maybe TNA has a chance to correct that and change the minds of their upset talent...But it shouldn't HAVE to come to that. TNA needs to go out of it's way to make sure their talent IS happy, especially if the names I'm hearing of unhappy talent is a tried-and-true list.

            James Guttman

            Well said. I agree with you 100%. If TNA were able to create the rabid-loyalty that ECW had with some of its workers, they'd be on Easy Street.

            Bmartin

            To do that they would have to be diffrent then WWE. They arent so they wont gain that loyalty.

                        Clifffside

                        The key to ECW's loyalty was the fact that Paul Heyman gave those guys shots in the wrestling business when no one else would. Paul really worked hard with each one of his guys to build up both them as a talent and ECW as a promotion. When you have a promoter who is in the trenches with you from day one and shows he is willing to put his neck out on the line for you and the company your trying to help establish, then any real man/woman would feel compelled to remain loyal.

The guys TNA had from the start that were busting their ass along with Jeff Jarrett aren't there anymore because their spots were given away to ex-WWE/ECW/WCW guys in order for a better draw. There is no loyalty from TNA's roster because:

1.) There was no loyalty shown to them by TNA

2.) The ex-WWE/ECW/WCW guys weren't there in the beginning struggles of the company along witht the Jarretts and Carters.


But loyalty isn't everything. And the type of bond between talent, fans and promoters seen in ECW is extremly rare in any business, nevermind the wrestling business. The thing TNA needs to do once they get these two hours of is to start showing the undercard talent that they give a dam and will try hard to get them into a position of success. Hopefully that'll increase locker room morale.

The good news is TNA have guys backstage who are in position of some power like Vince Russo, Terry Taylor and Jerry Lynn who know the importance of giving the younger guys their shot when the time comes and are willing to do so. Hopefully Jeff and Dixie listen to them.

Samoa Joe was offered a three-year contract extension with TNA but declined it.

                David

                Yikes.

                        Chazlo

                        Yeah, that has to be an 'Oh Shit" moment for TNA

                                    ZAH

                                    Wow. Didn't see that one coming.

                                                2^nd_Coming

                                                It's smart on Joe's part. How much longer is he signed for anyway? I know his contract isn't expiring anytime soon, but I don't know exactly when it expires. Now, when his contract does expire he'll have three bidders, ROH, WWE, and TNA.

                                                            David

                                                            And it's more incentive to give Joe the ball and the Title...which he deserves

Aaron Wood

Smart on Joe's part. He's been given the shaft by TNA to this point, so why should he commit to three years, if things aren't looking up? Plus, he'll have all those bidders going for him.

And as David said, they might just give him the title out of fear, although that isn'[t exactly how I would want him to get a title run, and I'd think he's smart enough to see TNA making a desperate play if that were to happen.

            Papi

            How's he getting the shaft?

The guy's main eventing all the time, going over Kurt Angle, winning titles, getting TV time, interviews, plush dolls, merchandise, etc.

Personally, I think Joe's been given too much. He looks and sounds like an indy guy, and I don't think a plush doll of a fat dude in a towel is going to be a hot seller at Toys R Us. Actually, I don't think they've sold any in the last three months since they arrived.

IMO, he needs to update his look -- new tights, boots, a haircut perhaps. Maybe cover up the jiggly man-boobs. Then you can give him his precious run with the title. Not until.

Clifffside

"......several people talked to Austin Aries about TNA and Aries said that all the "ROH guys" there want out. He said Sabin, Shelley and Joe have long term contracts so they are there for a while but other guys aren't renewing their contracts.....".

Now if Joe is declining to add 3 more years on top of this so called long term contract, then TNA has nothing to worry about in the immediate future.

Either way, I hope Joe gets his money and ultimately the respect that he deserves in TNA.

JohnnyCraze

Joe better get the world title this year. There is no reason why he shouldn't be allowed to run with the ball although I have nightmares on how WWE would use him

Aaron Wood

Obviously, he's been getting big pushes and what not, That's not in doubt. However, every time he seems to be on the verge of being made "the man" and being made the person at the top of the company, he has been shafted each and every time.

How many more itmes are we going to see a Joe main event with everyone going "This is his time. He's gonna do it", only to then not get the belt.

I mean, he's said it himself that he's been badly handled!

            Papi

            That's 'cause he's an ego-maniac who thinks he should be at the top of any company he's employed by, no matter how thinly worn his $5 trunks get.

It just doesn't seem like he's evolving. He's exactly the same as he was when I first saw him debut in TNA. Same moves. Same gear. Same look. Same shitty attitude.

It seems to me that he thinks he's "all that" and what he's doing now couldn't possibly be any better, so he gave up trying to improve long ago. Now he's just sitting back playing video games and waiting for his championship run to come to him. Then he bitches when it doesn't.

Joe = overrated.

                        T-Dog

                        So you're judging his personal character from news reports and not even having met him?

Also, you say ego-maniac, I say headstrong. And what's wrong with being headstrong? If you set back and do nothing others will run over you and you'll get nowhere. Of course you can overdo it but all I've heard is that ONE COMMENT he made at a ROH show about tripping over some bad booking. Maybe he was just playing to the audience? It wasn't the smartest thing to say but everyone can't keep a straight face for the company all the time. If we could we'd be perfect.

Just look before you leap.

                                    Papi

                                    I've been sour on Joe, honestly, since his audio talk with Guttman, which was, like, two years ago. Something about him rubbed me the wrong way, and he hasn't done anything to win me back since then.

Unless you count the same exact matches, promos, ring attire, and facial expressions he's been using since day one.

                                                Jason

                                                That's the case with most modern wrestlers. They might add a move or two and switch up colors to tights, but unless you're talking someone who has to totally reinvent himself to do a turn you rarely get changes.

JohnnyCraze

I don't think Joe's overrated at all. On getting the shaft, well, he hasn't won the world title yet and that's what every wrestler is in the company for(even though some wrestlers know deep down that they wouldn't get a world title shot even if they had a million dollars).
Let's face it. Joe has been marketed as world title material. The unbeaten streak. The matches with Kurt Angle. If he doesn't get the world title, then all of this seems like a waste of time.

            Aaron Wood

            Yeah, he had a streak. That was ended as soon as the "Golden Child" Angle showed up. His matches with Angle have hardly put Joe all that over. As TNA knows, it's fans are smart fans, and are thus likely to know about Angle's less than perfect condition. It, at the very least, hardly helps. And out of the 3 matches, Angle won 2 to 1, and since then Joe hasn't exactly been booked to be better than Angle.

                        Clifffside

                        I love Joe, he is my favorite wrestler and the reason why I like TNA. I hope he gets his chance to run with the ball too. But why should Joe be booked to be better than Angle when Angle was on his way to becoming champ? Wouldn't that hurt TNA's World Title since its heavyweight champion is weaker than its X-Division champion?

                                    JohnnyCraze

                                    True, but I thought the matches with Angle would propel Joe into the world title picture and make him an even stronger person. I think that if Angle loses the title to anyone, it should be Joe and not Sting, Jarrett, Christian(although he made a good champion) or even RVD(if he signs with TNA).

Aaron Wood

Why have Angle as Champ in the first place rather than put the belt on Joe? Does the former 5 time WWE Champion, Kurt Angle, really need the TNA Title? Remember, Angle only just won the rubber match, tapping out after time expired in the Iron Man. However, since then, the booking of both men has been in different leagues. It's almost as if they gave Joe the streak solely to have him there for any major WWE acquisition to come in and beat.

However, what they could have (and I would have) done after those three matches would have been to effectively swap Angle & Joe's roles at Against All Odds around, with Joe beating Angle in a contenders match and have Joe then beat Christian for the belt, because not only do you have another stab of Joe vs. Angle this time for a belt, but you haven't done any man or division down.

However, since the rubber match, Joe has been an outside enforcer, third Fiddle in the Lethal Lockdown match to Angle & Jarrett, beaten by Christian in a title shot and a very last minute addition to a PPV (the match with AJ at Sacrifice), and left ineligible to try and hook up the belt at Slammiversary (a privilege that CHRIS HARRIS was given).

The Moment of Insanity – July 8^th 2006

Aaron Wood

I only start this now, because even with RAW, ECW & Smackdown & Impact still to come, I think we have a winner in RVD & Sabu getting busted...

The Green Teabagger

That might be more a moment of stupidity....just wait for RAW.

I'm betting that the MOi will have something to do with DX and/or the McMahons...call me crazy.

            ZAH

            Ummm...how 'bout simulated oral sex on both Triple H and Candice Michelle? Completely insane and completely unnecessary.

Exx

This is a tough week for the MOI. RVD being WWE/ECW champ and probably losing both because of his weed habit

Or

The DX stuff that plagued the night of Raw, some which was funny, most of which was embarrassing

Keevel

RAW wasn't insanity
I enjoy insanity
RAW was dumb
I hate dumb

NozeNuggets

The ECW Garbagethon screwjob was my MOI this week.

Believe me, I should know, because I was there!

Legend Killer

the fact that DX are ripping off old nWo material and making it their own

TrentK

MOI = The HHH/Candice Michelle orgasm segment is my selection. Yeah the other stuff was pretty stupid....but this stood out.

It was one of those "I hope to god none of my friends are watching this" moments.

And we got a dose of Candice's "acting". You'd think she'd at least be able to properly fake an orgasm....boy I was wrong.

Antoine

For this weeks MoI I have to go with Coachman being pissed on.

So let me get this...last week was shit, this week it's piss what is it going to be next week. Only two other possible gross body produced liquids: puke and sperm!

I'm voting that next week someone is going to be puked on and they'll stop after that...seriously.

I can't figure which demographic they tried to capture with that segment?

I have to admit I enjoy a GOOD (important word here) fart joke has the next guy, but these bathroom humor attempts are depressing.

Gnu World Order

Coachman being pissed on is a good choice for MOI.
So is the "oral sex" bit.
So is RVD/Sabu getting busted (And it wasn't his weed habit that got him busted. It was he speeding habit that got him in trouble. Take it from me, you can toke it up all you want on Ohio's highways as long as you keep the MPH at 70 or under.)

But I'm going to go with LegendKiller this week and vote for the not-so-subtle ripping off of old nWo bits to fuel the DX fire. Nothing says "progressive" like ten-year-old skits. Hopefully soon we'll see a DX offshoot faction, Triple H removing Rey Mysterio's mask, Shawn Michaels puking at ringside and Trips dropping the belt to a returning Hogan after a fingerpoke of doom. I can't wait.

JohnBuk

It's been an insane week, but my vote would go to featuring a stripper prominently for 4 weeks in a row- a stripper who can't even dance much less strip.

Tenchi

My vote this week? RVD and Sabu getting busted. The worst part is. You just know that they're being hauled over the coals by WWE for getting caught, and not for the drugs themselves. I think the lesson here is that if you're stupid enough to get caught, you deserve everything you get.

            Keevel

            That has to be the insanity for the week.

My favorite part of this insanity is that the real life bad boy shenanigans really make the DX bits look even more like grade school behavior.

TrentK

Jesus....that didn't even dawn on me. First we have ASS,then we get people getting POO'd on and now people getting Pissed on. If this is following some sort of pattern....I'm not tuning into Raw next Monday.....

            Aaron Wood

            I don't know. We know how much we got to see last time Lita went under the covers...

Mike Johns

No brainer - Cheech and Chong getting busted in Ohio.

And just when RVD was finally starting to get a real push, too. God dammit.

Kwazi Mbutabe

RVD and Sabu, enjoying probably the biggest spotlight in their entire careers, blow it. That's possibly the best Moment of Insanity of the week.

Here are the videos of what was up for MOI this week. I just figured I'd throw these in for context for the people who weren't watching/stopped watching around the time.

HHH and Candice get oral sex:

The Coachman thing:

Sorry I can't find it guys. You could Youtube and Dailymotion the crap out of it to find it for me though. You'll win an imaginary cookie.

This past week has been about two things people CM Punk and CM Punk. Sure there were some great moments basically everywhere but we can be honest…it's the summer of Punk: The Sequel. If you're looking at the wrestling world; you're watching it for CM Punk. We're getting the same classic story with a big budget pushing it. The greatness of the original Summer of Punk is shining through even more thanks to this. Let us enjoy the ride, because it all ends this Sunday. Then again, maybe it doesn't…wouldn't that be something?

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THE GREEN TEABAGGER