Sandow, Rickard, and Uncle Ralph
10/23 Sandow, Rickard, and Uncle Ralph
By Sandow, Rickard, and Ralph
Oct 23, 2005, 17:33

Introductions:

Eugene Sandow is a lawyer based in Washington, D.C. He has been watching professional wrestling since 1985. He has strong opinions and even stronger ways of presenting them. Mr. Sandow is well known as an articulate and intelligent member of the Insanity Message Boards.

Mike Rickard is a lawyer based in New York. He has been watching professional wrestling for most of his life. As the current webmaster of www.WrestleInfo.com, Mike spends time studying the history of the industry. His work on Derek Burgan's Gumgod.com has been described as insightful and entertaining.

Crazy Uncle Ralph is James Guttman's angry Uncle. When he heard the name of James's upcoming book, he immediately registered the domain name "www.WorldWrestlingInsanity.com" In exchange for the site's name, he demanded that James give him a weekly writing gig. He hasn't watched wrestling since the early '80s and even then he didn't like it much. He's a big drinker and was once arrested for urinating in the Ball Pit of a McDonald's Playland.

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1. Which non-main eventer in WWE do you feel has the most potential and why?

Eugene Sandow: Bobby Lashley, who possesses all the qualities necessary to be a superstar, is going to main event sooner rather than later.  Lashley, who has an amateur wrestling background, is most often compared to Brock Lesnar, and I think the comparison is apt; I fully expect Lashley to receive a Lesnar level push in WWE.

Lashley has what might be the best look I've ever seen on a wrestler.  It’s way beyond the countless roided up trainees in OVW, who are best exemplified by Chris Masters, who has actually gone on to some level of success in WWE.  Lashley is not just another anabolic creation -- indeed, Lashley looks as if he'd eat someone like Dave Batista for breakfast. Even better, this is conveyed in Lashley’s facial expressions, which are picture perfect. I sure wouldn’t want to piss the guy off.

Lashley also possesses that intangible something that separates the top guys from the pack.  There's a charisma to him that makes crowds stand up and take notice, comparable perhaps in some ways to how Ultimate Warrior burst upon the scene almost two decades ago.  Warrior, without having been put on television, garnered tremendous reactions wrestling (or doing whatever it was that Warrior did) in WWF dark matches.  I felt that kind of vibe for Lashley's Smackdown debut several weeks ago against Simon Dean.  It seemed to me as if the fans actually cared about what was happening to Lashley in the ring. That’s going to pay enormous dividends down the line when Lashley draws money as both a babyface and a heel. I actually believe Lashley should probably be a protected monster heel right now, because typically the most popular babyfaces are wrestlers who were over as heels beforehand. Wrestling is all about emotion; if you have that charisma, if you make the fans care about you, they’re going to care about you whether you’re a face or a heel. I believe Lashley is going to make that kind of connection with fans.

I’ve also heard Lashley talk, as Paul Heyman has provided him with some solid mic time over the last two or three months of OVW television. Lashley has promo ability. There are nuances to his OVW character (who has transitioned over a several week period from a monster heel into a babyface), and Lashley is hitting them perfectly. And he’s super over because of it. The only thing that’s unknown is whether Lashley is going to become a solid in ring worker. This actually makes an excellent segue into the next question, where I discuss why in ring skill is not a prerequisite to main event success in wrestling. In fact, I think it matters so little in this particular case that I feel confident predicting Lashley will main event Wrestlemania a good two years before decade’s end.


Mike Rickard: There are a lot of talented young wrestlers working in the WWE. The Bashams, the Heartthrobs, Brian Kendrick, and Matt Striker are just a few names that come to mind. Few would argue that the WWE and its farm system Ohio Valley Wrestling suffers from a drought of talented rookies. There are dozens of young wrestlers that the WWE could build its future around. Unfortunately for most of these potential main eventers, the WWE’s vision of professional wrestling makes it likely that very few of them will make it past the mid-card. While the WWE has come a long way from the 1980’s when wrestling only appeared on the marquee and nowhere near a ring, the emphasis in booking is still to push muscular behemoths to the moon regardless of their in-ring ability. Good workers are needed but largely to fill the role of making the muscle heads look good.

Centering my prediction on this formula, I think Chris Masters has a bright future for himself in the WWE. He’s come a long way from his WWE debut where he was panned (and rightfully so) for being sloppy in the ring and unworthy of the push given him. Masters has an incredible physique without the tell-tale signs of where he got it from (see Gene Snitsky). His ring entrance is dynamite, his mic skills are surprisingly good, and the Masterlock finisher is one of the best developed finishes in a long time. Unlike many finishes, fans know that when the Masterlock is put on someone, it’s very possible that the match is going to be over regardless of his opponent. As for the ring skills of Masters (or better put, the lack of ring skills), he’s really improved. Granted, anything short of a fatality in the ring was an improvement over Masters’ first few matches but he’s really come a long way. First off, opponents can look forward to a match with Masters without having to plan on a trip to the nose doctor afterwards. Second, he’s been placed in situations where his shortcomings aren’t so obvious such as tag matches and put up against good workers in singles matches like Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair. Undoubtedly, Masters’ has a ways to go improving the quality of his matches but the fact that Batista is world champion shows that Masters has a very bright future ahead of him.

Uncle Ralph: Mr. Fuji. Why? Because I buy his blank videotapes. They're good quality and I'll be damned if he ain't the same. Here's to you, Mr. Fuji. Here's to you, buddy!

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2. Has wrestling’s openness about being scripted made it a necessity for top performers to be better in-ring workers?

Sandow: I don’t believe the public breaking of kayfabe has led to high quality in ring work becoming a necessity for main event performers. In fact, I don’t believe good in ring work is essential for success in wrestling, so I reject this question’s assumption that it is.

As tomorrow’s Observer notes, “[I]n most cases, the things that make the biggest difference when it comes to drawing money on the big stage is not one’s work, but one’s promo ability and charisma….” That hits the nail on the head. The true essential to wrestling stardom is charisma. Charisma is what every genuine star has had in abundance, from Gorgeous George through John Cena. Cena is struggling right now, true, but it’s not because of his lack of in ring skill. Cena is struggling with the post-pubescent male crowd because for the last year, Cena’s character has been marketed towards ten-year-olds, and indeed it has succeeded on that level. Moreover, many of Cena’s current detractors were on the bandwagon a few years ago when Cena was a cool heel dissing the babyfaces. John Cena’s ultimate success will not depend on the quality of his in ring work, but on how WWE presents his character. Cena’s charisma is undeniable, and it’s why today he is positioned at the top. Charisma is what is required to strongly get over with wrestling fans, not good in ring work.

John Cena can also cut a great promo, which is another quality that in the scheme of things is significantly more important to wrestling success than is workrate, though being able to talk is not quite the necessity that is charisma. Most of the time, promo ability is a requirement for success, but there are exceptional cases when it’s not, particularly when someone has a larger than life, unique look, as had Ultimate Warrior and Bill Goldberg. Warrior was strongly over in the days of kayfabe, so he’s not relevant to the question, but Goldberg came along years after the McMahons first decided to break the code to escape a commission’s clutch.

When one thinks of the top superstar of the last decade, it’s Steve Austin (The Rock in terms of mainstream success, but Austin by far in terms of wrestling success). Steve Austin was an incredible worker, but that wasn’t the secret to his success. Austin’s success was built upon charisma and speaking ability, along with the proper booking of his character. That Austin continued to work hard even when he no longer had to is commendable exactly because it wasn’t a necessity for his position. There are certainly wrestlers, like A.J. Styles, who are where they are mostly because they’re great workers, but that in my opinion has nothing to do with the breaking of kayfabe, and in most cases quality workrate is just not essential for wrestling success.

Rickard: Whether fans were ignorant to the scripted nature or not, there’s always been the need to make matches look as realistic as possible. No one wants to see a match where a guy is punching someone and missing his face by inches anymore than they wants to watch a movie and see a microphone hanging from the ceiling or bad special effects. The suspension of disbelief is essential.

Despite wrestling being “exposed”, I don’t think it’s changed the expectations of fans in general just because more people know matches are predetermined. Sure, there is a sizable part of wrestling’s audience whose enjoyment of the sport hinges on the quality of work in the ring but there’s a much larger segment whose enjoyment of wrestling is derived from the sport as a whole, the combination of angles, interviews/promos, and in-ring work. The majority of fans’ enjoyment of wrestling hinges on what I call the spectacle of wrestling, the large and lavish performance that is professional wrestling. The spectacle of wrestling is about larger than life characters whose battles with each other grow to epic proportion due to the buildup involved in getting to the match. Whether it’s the story of a partner betrayed, a sneak attack leading to an injury, or something else equally compelling, wrestling has always been about getting fans to want to see two people settle their differences by violence. There’s no better example of this than Wrestlemania III’s main event of Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant. Though it was no five star classic by the standards of workrate connoisseurs, the match made Wrestlemania III one of the greatest successes of all time. Since then quality of wrestling as a whole (workrate-wise) has improved but the formula has remained the same. People didn’t tune in to Monday Night Nitro in droves because Kevin Nash and Scott Hall were ring generals but because they wanted to see what would happen when the WWF invaded WCW. When Stone Cold Steve Austin took on Vince McMahon, they couldn’t care less about the workrate, they just wanted to see Austin kick McMahon’s ass.

The best analogy I can make between workrate and wrestling is comparing workrate to special effects. No doubt, bad special effects can mar an otherwise good film, but the majority of moviegoers want to be entertained. If a film has compelling characters and an intriguing plot, good special effects will make the film going experience all the more better. Likewise with wrestling- fans are more likely to enjoy a well hyped match between two good workers but a poorly promoted match between two good workers is going to attract a much smaller audience than a well hyped match between two average workers.

Uncle Ralph: With the admission that professional wrestling is, in fact, scripted, promoters have saddled their superstars with the burden of "entertaining" before "winning." Whereas a well placed winning streak could captivate the minds of fans at one point in time, the prominent "smart" wrestling population now have ways to share ideas and thoughts with one another. In fact, most...wait...I'm sorry. I spaced out there for a second. What was I saying? Oh yeah...Shut the F*ck Up!!

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3. Do wrestlers today understand the true meaning of ring psychology? 

Sandow: Many younger wrestlers do not understand ring psychology. The art of telling a story in the ring has been largely lost, mainly because a lot of wrestlers think it’s more important to get “everything in” than it is to build suspense through storytelling. Sometimes, less is more, and that’s something wrestlers like Petey Williams – who I very much enjoy watching – need to learn, not only for their own durability, but also in order to truly connect with the fans.

I remember watching Jake Roberts matches that contained little or no action, but people were nonetheless glued to the ring. It was all about whether Roberts could hit his finisher, the dreaded DDT, because, regardless of who you were, if Roberts hit that DDT, the 1-2-3 was a foregone conclusion. The DDT is today a transition move. A move is only as devastating as fans are educated to believe. If, two minutes after taking the DDT, you’re on offense and no longer selling, the move loses its luster. Many of today’s wrestlers should be studying Ricky Steamboat and Ricky Morton tapes, to learn how the masters sold. Steamboat’s and Morton’s comebacks popped the crowd because every punishing move by a heel before the comeback meant something – you could see it in their faces and in their body language. They sold, and people believed. Both Steamboat and Morton were also masters of the mini-comeback, in which a babyface taking punishment would get in two or three offensive maneuvers, only to then be thwarted by the heel. Thus, they built to the big comeback, and it meant something; it didn’t come out of nowhere, as it so often does today.

Another thing you don’t see enough of today is a hot tag that actually pops the crowd. Again, it’s because the art of telling a story has been lost, and, again, Ricky Morton should be studied by young wrestlers to learn how it’s correctly done. Almost invariably, a hot tag is made today with little or no build (which actually flies in the face of the reason it’s known as a “hot tag” in the first place). The crowd doesn’t pop because it has not been taken on an emotional rollercoaster that results in a pop. Done correctly, the babyface who is selling should make several close but failed attempts at the tag before it connects. The heels should at some point distract the ref, who consequently will not see a tag that is actually made. Alternatively, or additionally, the corner heel should attack or otherwise distract the corner babyface, who will therefore not be in the corner when the in ring babyface would otherwise be able to make the tag. Only after a proper build should a successful tag, recognized by the referee, be made. That’s storytelling. That’s psychology. That’s what is so often missing today.


Rickard: First off, what is ring psychology? Basically, it’s a logical structure on which a good wrestling match is based. It means that moves should flow in a logical manner and build up, somewhat akin to how Gustav Freytag broke down the structure of Greek and Shakespearean drama into five parts (exposition, rising action, climax, falling action, and denouement). Wrestling matches should make sense. Two evenly matched opponents typically would have to wear the other down to the point where they could execute a submission hold or pinfall. Ricky Steamboat didn’t start a match with Ric Flair by performing a flying body press anymore than Ric Flair would put Ricky Steamboat in the figure four leglock without first working on his leg.

As for the answer to the question, not nearly as much as they should and not nearly as many wrestlers as did before. The days when two wrestlers could keep a crowd on the edge of their seat with a headlock are long gone. To illustrate this, let me direct you to the WWE Hall of Fame 2004 DVD which contains a fifteen minute match between Magnificent Muraco and Pedro Morales. Nearly half of the match revolves around Morales trying to escape from the Asian Spike (a glorified headlock) by the Magnificent Muraco. While it may sound as sleep inducing as a bottle of Nytol, the match is entertaining due to the work of Morales selling the hold as if he was trying to escape the clutches of a boa constrictor. The ring psychology made the match believable and entertaining.

Part of the problem is the Pandora’s Box opened by the hardcore revolution of Extreme Championship Wrestling (ECW). Fans became conditioned over the last ten years to expect nothing less than a howitzer blast from guaranteeing a pinfall. When WCW and the WWF copied the ECW style, it hurt ring psychology further. When you have wrestlers kicking out of a pin after getting blasted with a sledgehammer, you raise the bar so high that moves like a headlock, arm bar, or wristlock are the equivalent of hitting an opponent with a pillow. The funny thing is that anyone who’s ever participated in any type of martial arts knows that the simplest of holds can cripple or kill when properly applied.

The other part of the problem is that matches often changed from a logical chain of moves that advanced an opponent to the stage where they went for a victory to a series of oftentimes random high spots that looked spectacular but made no sense. A wrestler would lie lifeless for minutes while his opponent went to stack up three sets of tables to powerbomb him through. The same wrestler would then kick out of a pinfall and proceed to execute his own series of sensational moves as if the powerbomb through the table was as painful as a mosquito bite.

The inevitable result of the Hardcore Revolution was the dramatic increase in serious neck injuries that plagued wrestling during the early portion of the new millennium. After watching several of its top stars join the Neck Injury for Men Club (including Kurt Angle, Edge, and Steve Austin), the WWE realized it had to tone things down. Spectacular bumps such as Mick Foley’s fall from the Hell in a Cell were banned and certain spots (such as the Undertaker’s tombstone Piledriver) required special permission before they could be used in a match.

As a result, you see a lot less matches where guys just execute high spots with no rhyme or reason. That doesn’t mean ring psychology is at the level where it should be but it’s a good start. There’s always hope in the work of promotions like Ring of Honor where psychology is used in most of their matches. Case in point last week’s ROH show in Williamsville, NY which featured an exciting match between ROH Champion Bryan Danielson and Steve Corino in which Danielson wore down Corino with a logical series of moves that led to Danielson executing his chicken wing submission move.

Ring psychology is an important aspect of the art of professional wrestling. In order for wrestling to maintain its success over a long-term period, you have to maintain psychology. Ring psychology is by no means extinct but by no means is it off of the endangered list either.

Uncle Ralph: Know what I don't understand? Chinese.

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4. Where do you see NWA-TNA in two years?

Sandow: I see good things ahead for TNA (as noted last week, this assumes that Jeff Jarrett is not a long-term focus of the promotion). This was a week of great news for the promotion, as it learned that Spike is serious about TNA television. First, as reported in the Observer, Doug Herzog, President of Spike, circulated an internal memorandum touting Impact’s ratings and future potential, and asking, “Who misses WWE now?” Second, for its third week, Impact maintained a solid .8 rating, which means TNA is not losing its audience. Third, and most importantly, Spike is providing TNA with a two-hour prime time special on Thursday, November 3. This show is scheduled to be something along the lines of the old NWA Clash of the Champions, which were closer to the level of pay-per-views than they were to typical television. Spike is giving TNA the opportunity to showcase its talent in prime time. If successful, it will no doubt lead to more prime time specials, and perhaps even a prime time weekday slot for Impact. I hate this kind of question because so much is dependent on unknown variables, but I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that the Monday Night Wars, version two, will be well underway in mid-2007.

Rickard: Like Moses and the Israelites wandering in search of the Promised Land, so too has NWA-TNA wandered in search of its proverbial Promised Land (except in the case of NWA-TNA it only seems like it’s been a forty year journey). Right now, things couldn’t be much better for TNA. Promoter Jerry Jarrett has finally found a vision for TNA after close to three years of inconsistent booking. He’s also landed a spot on a cable channel that’s already familiar to wrestling fans so he can promote his monthly PPV’s with weekly television. Furthermore, he’s rehabilitated TNA’s reputation with Internet fans after putting on consistently entertaining pay-per-views over the last few months.

However, like Damocles, TNA’s newfound fortune is eclipsed by the sword hanging over its head on a string; the sword being the financial support of Panda Energy. With the support of Panda Energy, TNA has been able to lock its top talent under contract, maintain solid production values, and advertise its product despite having operated at a loss. However that support could end at any time. It’s been well documented that Panda Energy has poured a lot of money into TNA despite the promotion’s inability to turn a profit. There’s no telling when Panda Energy will decide that it’s time to cut their losses, a predicament hanging over TNA just as the sword hung over Damocles’ head by a string.

TNA’s situation makes it imperative that they capitalize on their current situation. It’s time to take advantage of the good word of mouth and turn it into financially successful pay-per-views. By doing so, Panda Energy is more likely to stick with them (unless they just want a tax write-off for losses as I suggested last week) and they will put themselves in a position where they won’t have to rely on the support of Panda Energy to stay afloat.

If TNA can keep things running at the level they are at right now, I think they will still be around in two years. There are a lot of people looking for a quality alternative to the WWE and TNA is in the position to be that alternative. Whether that alternative will be here in two years depends largely on how TNA runs its company over the next few months.

Uncle Ralph: Now there's a gimmick they should use. Moses. They could part the audience and he could walk though them. Yeah. Hey wrestling promoting people, you can use that. Use that for your show. Just give Uncle Ralph credit - a shout out, as the young people say.

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5. Where do you see ROH in five years?

Sandow: Five years from now, I believe ROH will basically still be what it is today: a niche promotion where young wrestlers get to ply and hone their trade, free from being held back. The ROH business model is not the same as WWE’s or TNA’s. Most of ROH’s revenue flows from dvd sales. I haven’t seen ROH financial information, but my understanding is that the numbers are satisfactory, and ROH is not in danger of going out of business any time soon.

ROH is at an interesting crossroads right now. TNA, which has recently acquired the services of Samoa Joe and Austin Aries, among others, seems to be making a play for the ROH audience. Loss of talent, however, is not the issue. Booker Gabe Sapolsky, when faced with the loss of A.J. Styles, Christopher Daniels, and other top stars in the wake of Feinsteingate, proved he can create new stars, such as Samoa Joe and Austin Aries. Even assuming Joe and Aries become popularly perceived as “TNA” talent, Sapolsky will create new top stars, as he’s currently doing with Roderick Strong, a young wrestler with a very bright future. Although loss of talent is not a risk to ROH, Sapolsky still faces a task of re-imagining the product. To contrast itself from TNA’s X Division, Sapolsky is now turning to a more mat-based style, exemplified by 24-year-old ROH world champion, Bryan Danielson. This is a smart move. ROH fans love Danielson’s style; the wrestler he’s most often compared to is Chris Benoit, and not unfavorably. Danielson is a good pick to build around in the current climate, and with strong, creative booking, ROH fans will stand by the product.

One interesting thing we might see five years down the line are webcast pay-per-views of live ROH events. This would be an excellent development, and would probably result in expanding the ROH audience. The greatest gripe I have with the ROH product is that I’m seeing the events a month or two down the line – I know exactly what’s going to happen on the dvd’s, and, worse yet, ROH storylines have typically advanced quite a bit in the interim, rendering the dvd’s somewhat antiquated. There’s just no immediacy. And I find that a strong negative, though the quality of the wrestling more than makes up for it. (It must, because I continue to order ROH wrestling.) There’s nothing like being at an ROH event; in fact, attending Death Before Dishonor III and witnessing C.M. Punk’s title win and its aftermath was the single greatest wrestling experience of my life, despite my having attended Wrestlemanias 10 and 20. Being there live, not knowing what was going to happen – it was nothing less than mind-blowing. I feel bad that other fans did not get to share the experience at least in its immediacy. I can hardly imagine what the reaction would have been if Death Before Dishonor III unfolded live on a webcast. Five years from now, this should be technologically practical. It should also prove financially rewarding, as I’d expect large numbers of people ordering webcasts will still buy dvd’s, assuming the quality of the product remains high.

Rickard: ROH’s survival hinges on two things- maintaining its mystique and broadening its accessibility to fans. First, I must confess my own ignorance as to ROH’s current financial picture. I have no idea whether they are turning a profit or loss or what their cost of running the promotion, paying their wrestlers and so on entails. That being said, I think their business plan is pure genius. They know that they cater to a niche market of fans and that these fans will pay to watch shows despite the fact that by the time the DVD’s are produced, they know who won the match and how.

A large part of ROH’s success has been due to the ROH mystique. Most people who have seen ROH or gone to shows are amazed at the level of quality in the ring. ROH has built up a much deserved reputation for quality which in turn has created the ROH mystique, somewhat similar to the same heightened interest ECW developed during its heyday. This mystique makes fans willing to follow a promotion which is accessible mostly through buying DVD’s of their shows (unless you’re independently wealthy and willing to travel throughout the Northeast to each ROH show). If ROH can maintain its mystique, it could likely survive indefinitely under its current business plan. As long as ROH fans feel the product is staying true to the philosophy that makes it worth following they are going to support the promotion by buying its DVD’s and other merchandise.

Where ROH will run into a problem is if and when it decides to expand its audience. Right now if you were to ask a mainstream wrestling fan about ROH, you’d get the same reaction as if you asked them to explain the difference between mercantilism and Keynesian economics. Does ROH want to get more fans to support their product? Certainly so but such an effort could backfire if they alienate their existing fans and gain no new fans.

There’s always television but by my estimation, there is not much to be gained by ROH gaining a television slot with wrestling in a slump. If the WWE cannot command a percentage of advertising revenue, ROH isn’t going to do so. The way that their business plan seems to run shows on a shoestring budget, I seriously doubt if they could afford producing a weekly television show. Besides, what’s the sense of giving away a product for free unless ROH feels they could switch from selling DVD’s to selling PPV’s.

What seems logical to me is for ROH to consider expanding its presence on the Internet and providing fans access to ROH matches much as the WWE does at wwe.com with its WWE Jukebox and PPV web casts. While fans would no doubt enjoy owning ROH shows on DVD (much as fans purchase WWE PPV’s on DVD even after ordering the PPV), they might expand their fan base if they offered the shows on the Internet shortly after were held.

The continued success of ROH seems certain. ROH has managed to stay afloat despite an overall slump for wrestling in North America. Whether or not ROH evolves into anything more than the favorite of a small cult following is another story. By changing its formula to grow a larger audience, ROH could end up creating the wrestling equivalent of New Coke.

Uncle Ralph: Every day, I smoke two packs of Marlboro Reds a drink a 12 pack of MGD. If I'm alive to see anything in five years, I'm throwing a f*ckin' party.

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